I started wearing Puredistance Ysayo Extrait de Parfum in December last year. And I thought I had it all figured out in terms of my thoughts on this 2025 release from the Dutch niche brand. But then I interviewed its creator, Antoine Lie, in January and that changed. For the better.
Antoine Lie scored numerous big commercial hits before he became an independent perfumer in 2018. Whether you’ve worn them or not, there’s a good chance you’ve come across creations such as:
+ Ralph Lauren Romance For Men EDT (1999)
+ Elizabeth Arden Beauty EDP (2002)
+ Versace Crystal Noir EDP (2004)
+ Armani Code EDT (2004)
+ Van Cleef & Arpels First Premier Bouquet EDP (2007)
+ Avon Far Away Exotic EDP (2012)
+ Tom Ford Café Rose EDP (2012)
+ Pharrell Williams Girl EDP (2014)
+ Davidoff Cool Water Wave EDT (2017)
Even while working for the big fragrance companies, he was showing his creative flair with Etat Libre d’Orange Secretions Magnifiques EDP (2006) and Comme des Garçons Wonderwood EDP (2010).
Nowadays, Antoine Lie is very much his own man, with his own company, Antoine Lie Olfactive Experience. He can count brands such as Eris Parfums, Houbigant, Les Indémodables and Zoologist among his clients.
Without a marketing department in one of the big fragrance firms filtering his thoughts, Antoine Lie speaks his mind directly and is particularly scathing about the industry’s current business model. Which helps explains why projects like Puredistance Ysayo appeal so much to him.
In this interview, we spoke about how he became an independent perfumer, the non-negotiables in the way he works now and the creation of Puredistance Ysayo. It’s not the first fragrance he’s created for the house. In fact, since he started working with brand founder Jan Ewoud Vos, he’s produced standouts such as Black (2013), White (2015), Warszawa (2016), Gold (2019) and Aenotus (2019), among others, for them.
When did you become an independent perfumer?
I began as an independent perfumer in 2018. Actually, I did not really decide on it as such, at first. Before that, I worked with big companies like Givaudan, IFF, and then Takasago from 2011. I don’t want to go into detail, but they decided to get rid of me.
I left Givaudan, because it’s a monster with teams of perfumers all working in one category with some clients, but not the others.
It’s not motivating in terms of inspiration and creativity because everything depends on evaluators, salespeople, marketing people, and consumer testing people. It became very boring and frustrating to me. I left Givaudan to have more freedom, then suddenly I was kicked out of Takasago without anticipating that turn of events.
What did that unexpected turn of events force you to do?
I was forced to interrogate myself. What do I want to do? How do I want to finish my career? Do I want to go back to the big companies?
“I just want to talk with the brand owner. I refuse to talk to people from marketing and consumer testing. Those are my conditions.”
I consider myself as an artist. It means I just want to talk with the brand owner. And I don’t want any filters between me and the brand. I refuse to talk to people from marketing and consumer testing. Those are my conditions.
Because then you don’t think about the brand, you don’t think about the quality, you just think about the test, the analytical results. And then it becomes rational and not emotional.
And how’s that working for you?
It’s working great. I’ve got plenty of work, plenty of projects. And they respect the way I want to work. They know that there is a creation fee and that my conditions are to work with the dialogue and only with one person.
Do you ever miss working on high-profile projects, such as Armani Code (2004)?
Not at all. It’s even worse now than when I worked with them. They are into result, performance, the cheapest way possible to get the biggest amount of money.
Armani Code was an exception because it was supposed to be a flanker of something that is called Mania for Men. It was not completely formatted to hit the market. You still had, at the time, it’s more than 20 years ago now, humanity in the Armani team, people who have the conviction and power to do this sort of fragrance.
I’m glad you’re getting to work with clients that buy into your approach. Puredistance seems to get what you do.
It’s a long association that we have. Jan Ewoud [brand founder] gives me his idea that he expresses through words, sentences, pictures and textures. And then I translate what he wants. We’ve had a great fit since we began to work together on Puredistance Black in 2013 and White in 2015, which I developed while I was still at Takasago.
We respect each other because he saw I was completely frustrated with the way I was working, and I needed to have projects like this to allow me to reveal some creativity or some daring intention as well.
When you started working on Ysayo, what kind of fragrance did you imagine in your mind?
I remember that Jan Ewoud showed me visuals. It was about a man with experience in life doing introspection, cerebral in a way. And he showed me textures like underground, caves, where you get water dripping and moss. Darkness, a bit leathery as well.
It was how to mix touches of greenness, spiciness, woods (because it’s very patchouli as well), ambery parts, animalic parts, but without taking over the whole purpose.
Tell us about some of the ways in which you went about differentiating it.
I started to re-smell ingredients that I’d not used a lot before. Blue chamomile is a very specific ingredient – there’s an overdose of it in Ysayo that makes the difference, especially on top.
“Blue chamomile has different inflections. Of course, it’s aromatic, but there’s a touch of soft greenness, also a leathery quality to it.”
What I like about blue chamomile is that it has different inflections. Of course, it’s aromatic, but there’s a touch of soft greenness, there’s also a leathery quality to it. If you remove the blue chamomile, and maybe the celery as well, then you would end up with something a bit more déjà vu, more expected in a way.
The way you source your raw materials, that’s also important to you…
I work with L’atelier Français des Matières and Atelier Fragranze Milano. For Ysayo, I worked with L’atelier Français des Matières because Jan Ewoud wanted the best quality possible in terms of ingredients. I’m also part of the L’atelier team in terms of trying to develop new ingredients, so I guide them to let them know if it’s a good trial, or they must change parameters to get something better.
For the sourcing at L’atelier Français des Matières, Rémi Pulverail is in charge. He was a buyer for Givaudan, like, maybe 15 or 20 years ago. So he knows exactly where the good sources for ingredients are because he’s travelled the world.
For the big companies, they are not just looking for the quality. They are looking for the best quantity at the best price, which is completely different.
For example, Rémy goes to the small producers that have great ingredients with very specific olfactive profiles. Instead of having one lavender oil, like, in a big company, where the buyers buy everything everywhere, and they are mixing all the things, and after that are just adjusting to make sure that it’s going to smell the same as last year… The industrial way.
For consistency?
Yeah, exactly. Rémy decided he wants to give the perfumers who work in his lab the possibility to use different olfactive profiles from, for example, lavender. We have four different lavenders coming from different places in France, all with distinctive profiles.
“If you’re a painter, suddenly instead of having one red, you’ve got nuances on the red.”
You get one that is warm, almost tonka chocolatey. Another one would be sparkling in a way. Some other would be very clean, very aromatic. Depending on the project you have, you may switch from one to another, which [chuckles] if you’re a painter, suddenly instead of having one red, you’ve got nuances on the red.
We are going directly to the source, directly to the producer, respecting them, and we are not trying to negotiate the price like the big company is doing. Basically, they put a lot of pressure on the price on those farmers. That’s the problem. And it’s like this, not just in perfumery, everywhere. That’s why the ingredients we have on our palette are more expensive than the one you can have with some other company.
It makes a difference. It’s a great perfume. The more I wear it, the more I’m enjoying it. I prefer to grow into something more than love it the first time, and then six months later, I’ve gone the other way.
Jan Ewoud was also saying something like that when I last met him.
The interesting thing is that now there is no filter between me and the people who are wearing the fragrance. They are sending me direct messages through Instagram, because I’m open to this and I’m visible on media, because I’ve got people that are taking care of my image as well… It’s not like I want to be present all the time, but when I’ve got something to say, I want to be able to present it in the best way possible.
A lot of people are loving Ysayo, that’s for sure. But it has a strong signature, so some people are going to love it, and others are going to say, “No, it’s not for me at all.” But that’s what I love. You don’t have something in between, like, “Yeah, okay. Well, so what?”
“I prefer it to be categoric in a way. That’s art, that’s the way it should be.”
I prefer it to be categoric in a way [chuckles]. That’s art, that’s the way it should be. In industrial perfumery, it’s the opposite. They just want everybody to love it, even though it smells like something that has already been done before.
MY THOUGHTS ON PUREDISTANCE YSAYO EXTRAIT DE PARFUM
I don’t usually list the raw materials in a fragrance, but for Ysayo (from the Puredistance website), it shows its quality and complexity:
Top notes: Saffron, Galbanum oil Iran, Blue Chamomile oil Egypt, White Artemisia oil Morocco.
Middle notes: Celery oil India, Geranium oil Egypt, Jasmine absolute India, Thyme oil France, Geranium oil Madagascar.
Base notes: Ciste absolute Spain, Patchouli oil Indonesia, leather, Vetiver oil Java and Haiti.
When I first started writing about Ysayo, I was going to focus on the two aspects that really stood out for me: the patchouli and vetivers. My conversation with Antoine Lie gave me a deeper appreciation of what went into the creation of this perfume.
Call it the power of suggestion (or education), but I now pick up more of the blue chamomile and how together with the galbanum (often a heavy-hitter), it gives Ysayo a softly green feel. Blue chamomile is also known for its hay-ish characteristics and that certainly comes through here.
The interplay between the herbal and aromatic aspects is never obvious, with one shouting out its presence more than the other. The same could be said for the jasmine, with its slightly sweet floralcy in the background.
I love how the spiciness of celery (slightly green too) leads to the more instantly recognisable earthiness of patchouli (a tad chocolate-y to me) and vetivers in the drydown.
Throughout the progression of Ysayo, there’s a leatheriness. This would come from the saffron, blue chamomile and labdanum. No doubt, a synthetic emphasises this side. It’s a smooth, lived-in leather, with just a hint of the animalic.
I wouldn’t hesitate to praise Ysayo for its elegance. But elegance can sometimes imply safe and boring too. With Ysayo’s abundance of character – or as Antoine Lie would call it, “signature” – there’s none of that here.
Ysayo is available from selected retailers worldwide. It can also be ordered from the Puredistance website.
